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Author Topic: XL1000V Fuel issue  (Read 1383 times)

satts

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XL1000V Fuel issue
« on: March 16, 2017, 04:16:22 PM »

Hi,

Could someone please assist me with a fuel problem (I think) on 99 xl1000V?
The situation is this:
I have recently performed the well documented electronic facet fuel pump mod (40105) as my old pump had failed (points worn away)
[imp][/img]I have tried to upload an image here but all that happens is a text showing saying image - don't know what's going on there????.
Anyway, now when I start from cold (choke on) the engine runs initially for around 30 seconds @ 2K revs then dies. It smells very rich, like raw fuel.
I now have to keep reving it slightly until its warm as the choke no longer seems to do anything. It was fine on the old pump so I know it isn't the cable. I have kept all the hoses the same size etc, and there is no adjustment on the pump that I am aware of. The bike runs fine after the initial faff warming up. I guess the problem will disappear now the weather is getting warmer but its very annoying.

With thanks

Dave.

The Prodded Dog

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Re: XL1000V Fuel issue
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2017, 08:58:04 PM »
Don't make the presumption that because the choke always worked it can't cause problems now. Check it. Have you got standard cans on?
By opening the carbs during warming up you are introducing more air into the mixture so weakening it. Again is the choke causing it to run too rich during warm up.
A weak fuel pump will not deliver the same amount of fuel pressure in the carbs leading to a weaker mixture. You have fixed the pump so the carbs are getting 100% fuel. Did you tweek the idle screw at any time in the past?
Will it start from cold with no choke? Is your air filter clean?
Assume nothing. Work through every possible variable. Do a plug check for colour. Is it running rich to start with?
Best of luck and check back anytime.
The Prodded Dog
I can still do all the things I could when I was 21, but now it is with less teeth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtp4adNTP0Y

satts

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Re: XL1000V Fuel issue
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2017, 10:55:19 PM »
Thanks, I think your right its probably now running far to rich, which might explain why its so poor on fuel and smokes (not oil) a fair old bit until its warm. Its all standard apart from the bits I've mentioned due to the fuel pump. I think you have confirmed what I suspected. I know I have reached my limit as fine tuning is a bit above me. I can generally work out why  a bike wont start but poor running niggles tend to require a bit more experience than I have. Its had all the usual servicing needs carried out by me - oil / air /fuel filters / plugs etc. Also I could not detect any play in the choke cable. The one thing I haven't had done is valve clearances - how crucial is this on the old xl1000v's? Mine has done 24K miles on 1999 reg.

r
Dave.

S Barker

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Re: XL1000V Fuel issue
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2017, 01:51:53 PM »

I agree with my wise and ancient friend TPD.

With a full fuel tank (petrol level above the top of the carbs) the bike should run OK with the fuel pump bypassed. If you tried this and the bike ran OK then it would confirm what we suspect, that the new fuel pump is pushing out higher pressure than the old one.

If this is the case then the only thing to look at would be the carb floats and float valves. If these are working correctly then changes in the fuel pressure should have no effect.

If the float valves are leaking as a result of the increased pressure than this would result in the bike running much richer.

SB
I wonder what happen if I click on this - Ooops

Bønne

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Re: XL1000V Fuel issue
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2017, 02:08:17 PM »
A weak fuel pump will not deliver the same amount of fuel pressure in the carbs leading to a weaker mixture. You have fixed the pump so the carbs are getting 100% fuel.
Well, this is not correct, there are no fuel pressure inside the carbs. Though the fuel pump gives a pressure to deliver fuel to the floating chambers, the filling of the chambers are regulatet by the float valve, which opens and closes according to the float level. That´s why the max. pressure from the Facet 40105 is just 0,8 bar, as it´s only going to transport fuel from the tank to the carbs. On the other side of the float valve, in the chamber, there are no pressure (in fact the chamber is vented to atmosphere), and the fuel is taken from the chamber via the main jet, pilot jet and throttle system by the vacuum through the carbs created by the intake. If the float valve was defect, or the pump had a pressure so high that the float valve could not close, the float chambers would be overfilled and leaking via the vent hose from the chambers.
Plan your ride, ride your plan.

The Prodded Dog

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Re: XL1000V Fuel issue
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2017, 09:53:44 PM »
So Bonne, you have pointed out what is wrong with my diagnosis.
I would like to hear your thoughts on whats wrong?
You see, this forum is to try and help fellow members.

The Prodded Dog
I can still do all the things I could when I was 21, but now it is with less teeth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtp4adNTP0Y

satts

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Re: XL1000V Fuel issue
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2017, 11:20:35 AM »
Just to update I went to the trouble yesterday of actually checking the choke cable was operating the plungers correctly - a real pain as you have to displace the carbs to get to the nuts that secure the choke cable to the carb body! - all ok  :( I also checked the top plug again whilst it was all exposed, again its an iridium plug that looks as good as the day it went in 5K miles ago. The air filter appeared slightly oily tho. I didn't change this myself as I was assured this was done when I bought the bike. I wondered if it had been sprayed with something or could there be something wrong with the stupidly elaborate emission system? Thanks.

satts

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Re: XL1000V Fuel issue
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2017, 12:29:47 PM »
I also found these to be soggy with crud / oil. One of them fell to bits when I removed the main air filter. The haynes manual lists them as a 'sub air filter'. What do they do? Can I leave them out? Lingshondaparts Number PFKL357037 and they are £7 each plus postage! Anyone tell me why it wont let me upload any images? The image icon doesn't seem to do anything. Apologies for all the stupid questions.

S Barker

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Re: XL1000V Fuel issue
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2017, 09:15:16 PM »
Fiche images and parts lists can be found here :
https://www.bike-parts-honda.com/honda/model/VARADERO/1000.html

The "sub air filters" should filter any air going from the airbox into the exhaust via the cylinder heads. If the "sub air filters" are oily/destroyed it would suggest that air is travelling the wrong way (from the cylinder head to the air box) indicating a problem with the pair valves.

This might also explain the oil on the main air filter which has been know to be a cause of rough idling/running.

I would try to clean or replace the main air filter and then try the fuel pimp bypass before anything else.

The space on the server that hosts this forum is limited and there is a limit on the number and size if files that users can upload depending on how long they have been members and how many posts they have made.

The [imp][/img] function allows you to link to an image stored on an another website or file hosting server (like this - below).




« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 09:17:09 PM by S Barker »
I wonder what happen if I click on this - Ooops

Bønne

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Re: XL1000V Fuel issue
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2017, 09:42:17 PM »
You see, this forum is to try and help fellow members.
Yes, I know, but that must include correction of incorrect information too :)
I know that there are both some carb-Varaderos and quite a few Africa Twins around working fine with the Facet 40105, so I don´t believe the problem is here.
I would have suggested a check of the choke and the air filter, but at least the choke seems now to be okay.

I´m not quite sure what the "sub air filters" do, but when I changed mine, it felt as if the engine ran more smooth and responded better in the low rews... but maybe that´s just pure imagination ;D.



I don´t think it´s a good idea to remove them, as there must be a reason for them to be there.
Here the price is something else: http://www.cmsnl.com/products/filter-sub-airc_17254mbb000/#.WM1zo_nhBEY

Now the question is; why are you having oil in your air filter box? Have you by accident put to much oil on the bike? Normally, when there´s oil in the air box, it comes from to high under compression, which it caused by a worn engine, but if this should be the case, it occurs over time, not suddenly.

Plan your ride, ride your plan.

satts

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Re: XL1000V Fuel issue
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2017, 01:03:52 PM »
I have ordered the new sub filters and another main air filter via https://www.ajsutton.co.uk a bit cheaper with free delivery.
I have found that the sub filters each have a short stub of pipe attached from the bottom of the air filter housing down to each carb so I'm hoping its that not allowing the carb to do its thing properly on choke. I shall report back but the filters unfortunately are on a two week lead time! :(
Guys thank you for all the info and suggestions - its always nice to be able to bounce some ideas somewhere like this before panicking and heading off to the local bike shop.

 


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