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Manualn Varadero 1000V3 sd02...
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Instrument cluster
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Recent posts
#91
General / Re: Starting problem
Last post by S Barker - 29/05/23 - 19:12:50Gulag
Is it an XL125 or an Xl1000V ?
The "White Smoke" could be oil or water.
Oil will smell of burnt oil
Water will leave moisture on your hand if you hold it close to the exhaust.
#92
General / Starting problem
Last post by Gulag - 29/05/23 - 11:03:29Hello gang, new to this forum but been reading a lot the last weeks.
I have a low mileage 2006 varadero fuel injected and have a problem I cant figure out.
When I start it, it runs, but barely, runs for a few seconds, does not rev, smokes white smoke,
Battery ok
New fuel pump
Good compression
New spark plugs
New fuel
Good spark
No fi or hss errors
Im pretty sure its fuel related but im now stumped.
Hope someone has ideas where to go to next
I have a low mileage 2006 varadero fuel injected and have a problem I cant figure out.
When I start it, it runs, but barely, runs for a few seconds, does not rev, smokes white smoke,
Battery ok
New fuel pump
Good compression
New spark plugs
New fuel
Good spark
No fi or hss errors
Im pretty sure its fuel related but im now stumped.
Hope someone has ideas where to go to next
#93
125 Open Forum / Clutch Replacement cock up upd...
Last post by Bikerbill - 16/05/23 - 21:33:39Hi everyone
I have been working on bikes and cars about 40 years, but now and again the spanner of doom pays a visit just to put you in your place. I have changed more clutches than you can shake a stick at, but it's things which you don't consider, simple things, things you have done many times without an issue which inevitably cause issues, and in this case quite a bit more money. The reason i replaced the clutch was that under heavy load, the clutch would slip and this engine has 34000 miles on it so due a replacement.
I am not going to do a step by step "How to" on the clutch replacement as a quick browse on the web will find a tutorial for the Varadero 125. I am however going to point out a few things which held me up doing the clutch replacement.
(1) How hard can it be to simply remove the radiator cap? Well, after a lot of skin shredding (i never removed the fairings) and struggling to get a firm grip on the cap, i could not get it to budge, it would only move a small amount. That was a bit strange, so i used my inspection mirror to see if it was damaged or been glued on or something.
For some reason Honda thought it would be a great idea to hide a screw to lock it in place. Okay not such a stupid idea as it will prevent high pressure boiling water squirting over the rider, but at least it could have been fitted in a position for easy access.
(2) Removing the water pipe from the casing after draining the radiator. This added another 30 min to the job, what a pain. There is hardly any room between the pipe elbow and the frame. Having removed the 8mm bolt i used a small pry bar to lever the flange away from the case while wiggling and pull up on the pipe at the same time, and eventually pulled it free.
(3) Having removed the clutch cable and all the bolts from the case, and as they say in most DIY manuals, simply remove. Yes good luck with that, it took 45 mins of tapping and whacking the case with a rubber mallet before there was any evidence of movement.
Replacing the clutch plates went without an issue, i measured the clutch springs i removed to see how close they were to the wear limit and they were exactly the same length as the new ones, so the problem was not with the springs. I also inspected the plates and the friction plates. The friction plates measured on average 3mm, the wear limit according to Honda is 2.6mm, so replacing them was a good call. I then spent a good few hours trying to remove the old gasket from the engine block, this is very challenging,(remove the dowels before you start) as there is very little room to work at the bottom of the engine. While i was scrapping away, i spotted a loose spring underneath the clutch basket. Surprised at what i found i wondered where it came from. It turned out to be the clutch lever return spring, it must have come separated from the lever during the thrashing of the case during removal. Reinstalling the spring is quite straight forward the small tang fits in a hole at the end of the lever and the longer one in the slot of the case.
Clutch lever return spring
Clutch lever spring aperture
Spring fitted
Here are some photo of the worn plates
As a foot note to this, change all the plates at the same time including the judder plate and spring. If you look closely at the metal plates you will see some hot spots.
This is where things go badly wrong.
Putting the case back on the engine should be simple, i have never had any real issue with this part of an engine rebuild, i built 2 125cc engines and 1 200cc engines last year, so no stranger to this step, until VARADERO 125..
Where on most engines you lube any shafts, seal etc. then slide the case evenly to ensure every thing is in place, bosh job done. This is the method i used on my Varadero, bad move. What i should have done, was consulted the workshop manual and read the paragraph stating, the shaft of the water pump shall be inserted in it's orifice and the impeller tighten to a specific torque, then and only then assemble the case to the engine. I didn't do that, but the engine went together reassembled, oil the full works until i discovered a huge puddle of coolant on the workshop floor.
I drained out what was left of the coolant and took the water pump off to see if a seal had an issue, well, i wasn't disappointed i found this....
and this is part of the mechanical seal, this seal was broken because (1) the shaft drive of the water pump caught it during the reassembly (2) i never did the job correctly.
The consequences now
(1) Buy a replacement Mechanical Seal
(2) Drain the engine
(3) Strip the engine down again
(4) Buy replacement gaskets for reassembly
(5) Press in replacement Mechanical Seal
(6) Rebuild Engine
I know a lot of people hide their mistakes, especially in youtube videos, but i feel you learn more form getting things wrong sometimes. One thing i can take away from this is, read the workshop manual, even if you have decades of experience.
The cost of cockup repair.
[1] Water pump housing seal £5.99
[2] Clutch Cover gasket £9.49
[3] Mechanical Seal £23.95
[4] Coolant 2L £12.65
[5] Distilled Water 1L £2.99
[6] Engine oil 2L £37.90
[7] Oil Filter £6.50
Total additional Cost £99.47
Biker Bill
I have been working on bikes and cars about 40 years, but now and again the spanner of doom pays a visit just to put you in your place. I have changed more clutches than you can shake a stick at, but it's things which you don't consider, simple things, things you have done many times without an issue which inevitably cause issues, and in this case quite a bit more money. The reason i replaced the clutch was that under heavy load, the clutch would slip and this engine has 34000 miles on it so due a replacement.
I am not going to do a step by step "How to" on the clutch replacement as a quick browse on the web will find a tutorial for the Varadero 125. I am however going to point out a few things which held me up doing the clutch replacement.
(1) How hard can it be to simply remove the radiator cap? Well, after a lot of skin shredding (i never removed the fairings) and struggling to get a firm grip on the cap, i could not get it to budge, it would only move a small amount. That was a bit strange, so i used my inspection mirror to see if it was damaged or been glued on or something.
For some reason Honda thought it would be a great idea to hide a screw to lock it in place. Okay not such a stupid idea as it will prevent high pressure boiling water squirting over the rider, but at least it could have been fitted in a position for easy access.
(2) Removing the water pipe from the casing after draining the radiator. This added another 30 min to the job, what a pain. There is hardly any room between the pipe elbow and the frame. Having removed the 8mm bolt i used a small pry bar to lever the flange away from the case while wiggling and pull up on the pipe at the same time, and eventually pulled it free.
(3) Having removed the clutch cable and all the bolts from the case, and as they say in most DIY manuals, simply remove. Yes good luck with that, it took 45 mins of tapping and whacking the case with a rubber mallet before there was any evidence of movement.
Replacing the clutch plates went without an issue, i measured the clutch springs i removed to see how close they were to the wear limit and they were exactly the same length as the new ones, so the problem was not with the springs. I also inspected the plates and the friction plates. The friction plates measured on average 3mm, the wear limit according to Honda is 2.6mm, so replacing them was a good call. I then spent a good few hours trying to remove the old gasket from the engine block, this is very challenging,(remove the dowels before you start) as there is very little room to work at the bottom of the engine. While i was scrapping away, i spotted a loose spring underneath the clutch basket. Surprised at what i found i wondered where it came from. It turned out to be the clutch lever return spring, it must have come separated from the lever during the thrashing of the case during removal. Reinstalling the spring is quite straight forward the small tang fits in a hole at the end of the lever and the longer one in the slot of the case.
Clutch lever return spring
Clutch lever spring aperture
Spring fitted
Here are some photo of the worn plates
As a foot note to this, change all the plates at the same time including the judder plate and spring. If you look closely at the metal plates you will see some hot spots.
This is where things go badly wrong.
Putting the case back on the engine should be simple, i have never had any real issue with this part of an engine rebuild, i built 2 125cc engines and 1 200cc engines last year, so no stranger to this step, until VARADERO 125..
Where on most engines you lube any shafts, seal etc. then slide the case evenly to ensure every thing is in place, bosh job done. This is the method i used on my Varadero, bad move. What i should have done, was consulted the workshop manual and read the paragraph stating, the shaft of the water pump shall be inserted in it's orifice and the impeller tighten to a specific torque, then and only then assemble the case to the engine. I didn't do that, but the engine went together reassembled, oil the full works until i discovered a huge puddle of coolant on the workshop floor.
I drained out what was left of the coolant and took the water pump off to see if a seal had an issue, well, i wasn't disappointed i found this....
and this is part of the mechanical seal, this seal was broken because (1) the shaft drive of the water pump caught it during the reassembly (2) i never did the job correctly.
The consequences now
(1) Buy a replacement Mechanical Seal
(2) Drain the engine
(3) Strip the engine down again
(4) Buy replacement gaskets for reassembly
(5) Press in replacement Mechanical Seal
(6) Rebuild Engine
I know a lot of people hide their mistakes, especially in youtube videos, but i feel you learn more form getting things wrong sometimes. One thing i can take away from this is, read the workshop manual, even if you have decades of experience.
The cost of cockup repair.
[1] Water pump housing seal £5.99
[2] Clutch Cover gasket £9.49
[3] Mechanical Seal £23.95
[4] Coolant 2L £12.65
[5] Distilled Water 1L £2.99
[6] Engine oil 2L £37.90
[7] Oil Filter £6.50
Total additional Cost £99.47
Biker Bill
#94
125 Open Forum / Re: 2004 125
Last post by Bikerbill - 09/05/23 - 09:39:25Compression test is a great starting point. Has the bike been in storage for the winter or been i regular use? It could be dirt in the idle jets in the carbs.
#95
125 Open Forum / Re: 2004 125
Last post by S Barker - 08/05/23 - 20:37:34I think the first thing would be to do a compression test !
#96
125 Open Forum / 2004 125
Last post by snowman212 - 08/05/23 - 12:15:59Hi
My sons bike won't run without throttle and has what appears to be exhaust gasses coming out of a breather pipe next to the engine.
We went for a ride yesterday and was running fine, came of A roads and got on a duel carriage way and it cut out started back up straight away and then cut out again on slip road struggled to restart and managed to nurse it home.
Was after ideas of where to start to try and solve the problem.
Thanks
John
My sons bike won't run without throttle and has what appears to be exhaust gasses coming out of a breather pipe next to the engine.
We went for a ride yesterday and was running fine, came of A roads and got on a duel carriage way and it cut out started back up straight away and then cut out again on slip road struggled to restart and managed to nurse it home.
Was after ideas of where to start to try and solve the problem.
Thanks
John
#97
125 Open Forum / Re: Instrument Cluster problem
Last post by Bikerbill - 27/04/23 - 16:38:14Update
Having weighed up the pro's and con's, that being £40 just to have the instrument cluster inspected to find any faults, i decided to buy a second hand unit which i could put on the bike. The theory being that if the fault remained the same, then the wiring would be the culprit and not the instrument cluster, leaving me with a spare instrument cluster. This in my mind is not a bad thing, as i intend to future proof the bike knowing that parts are getting harder to find. In my case the replacement instrument cluster works just fine, proving that the wiring checks i completed ( as described earlier ) were correct, indicating that the instrument cluster was at fault.
Photo above showing the replacement instrument cluster installed on the bike.
I purchased the replacement from a guy Dave on Ebay, he has lots of Varadero 125 parts in his Ebay shop, well worth looking him up
davdavibenc he is spot on with the parts he sells, great comms with a 100% feedback a genuine guy.
Although electronics are not my thing, i am going to try and find the problem with my original instrument cluster (how hard can it be!!)
Well sometime has past but eventually found the time to inspect the instrument clusters pcb, here are a few photos.
Got to be honest, electronics are not my thing. However, if something has shorted out, i would expect to see some evidence of heat damage on the board. Nothing obvious on it as far as i can see, just an observation that one of the tracks seems to be different as shown below.
I am unsure if this is a fault or not, so no alternative but to send it off for repair.
Having weighed up the pro's and con's, that being £40 just to have the instrument cluster inspected to find any faults, i decided to buy a second hand unit which i could put on the bike. The theory being that if the fault remained the same, then the wiring would be the culprit and not the instrument cluster, leaving me with a spare instrument cluster. This in my mind is not a bad thing, as i intend to future proof the bike knowing that parts are getting harder to find. In my case the replacement instrument cluster works just fine, proving that the wiring checks i completed ( as described earlier ) were correct, indicating that the instrument cluster was at fault.
Photo above showing the replacement instrument cluster installed on the bike.
I purchased the replacement from a guy Dave on Ebay, he has lots of Varadero 125 parts in his Ebay shop, well worth looking him up
davdavibenc he is spot on with the parts he sells, great comms with a 100% feedback a genuine guy.
Although electronics are not my thing, i am going to try and find the problem with my original instrument cluster (how hard can it be!!)
Well sometime has past but eventually found the time to inspect the instrument clusters pcb, here are a few photos.
Got to be honest, electronics are not my thing. However, if something has shorted out, i would expect to see some evidence of heat damage on the board. Nothing obvious on it as far as i can see, just an observation that one of the tracks seems to be different as shown below.
I am unsure if this is a fault or not, so no alternative but to send it off for repair.
#98
General / Varadero SD01 side case holder...
Last post by Branko.R - 24/04/23 - 16:17:48Hallo, i am searching to buy side case holders vor my Vara SD01. Cases are Original Honda. If someone have it or know someone who sell it, please contact me. Thanks in Advance and Regards from Stuttgart Germany. Branko
#99
125 Open Forum / Re: Instrument Cluster problem
Last post by Bikerbill - 21/04/23 - 19:55:03Further research shows the differences in the instrument Cluster plug wiring, as you see the Black and Blue wiring has been changed for the 2005 model.
Conclusion
The wiring on the bike was tested an proved to be okay. Based on my findings the Instrument Cluster has a fault and needs work, which is well out of my comfort zone. I have found a place locally who can check the pcb for around £40.
Conclusion
The wiring on the bike was tested an proved to be okay. Based on my findings the Instrument Cluster has a fault and needs work, which is well out of my comfort zone. I have found a place locally who can check the pcb for around £40.
#100
125 Open Forum / Re: Instrument Cluster problem
Last post by Bikerbill - 20/04/23 - 21:38:40I have removed the instrument cluster from the bike to check out the wires in the plug. It's also good move to removed the screen, as i don't want it scratched while extracting the instrument cluster.
To remove the plug from the instrument cluster is a nail splitting job, trying the depress the little white tab on the side of the plug while gently prising it out, this plug was very tight.
As you can see from the above photo, the holes in the plug are very small, so none of my test probes would fit. I found some suitable wire and removed enough stands so it would fit in the holes, then tinned them with solder. There is access at the side of each hole where the metal of the terminal is exposed. This would make it easy to test, but the pins on the instrument cluster slide inside the terminal, if corrosion was inside the terminal it would not be identified using the external metal surface.
As you will see from the photo above back probing this plug would be very difficult, and i would not risk damaging the plug trying to do so.
Testing the wiring
The above photo represents the pinout of my Varadero 2005.
Using the Honda Varadero 125 workshop manual i have started the process of testing the wiring and the results are as follows.
I have already tested the fuse and the battery. All these tests are done on the harness not the instrument cluster.
(1) Measure the voltage between the Black / Brown terminal and the Green / Black terminal, this will show no voltage with the ignition off and battery voltage with the ignition on. Should this fail, there must be a break in the circuit (open circuit) or a poor connection, short circuit in the harness.
On my bike i was correct showing battery voltage with ignition on.
(2) Measure the voltage between the Black / Blue terminal and the Green / Black terminal, this will show no voltage with the ignition off and battery voltage with the ignition on. Should this fail, there must be a break in the circuit (open circuit) or a poor connection, short circuit in the harness.
On my bike i could not do this test at the time, my bike doesn't have a black blue terminal, i need to find out what that circuit is.
(3) Check the continuity between Green / Black terminal and Ground (i used the ignition barrel for ground).
So that is as far as i could go atm, i need to find more info on the black and blue terminal, any suggestions would be good.
Here is a photo of the instrument cluster going live with the ignition off, so i am pretty certain the instrument cluster works
To remove the plug from the instrument cluster is a nail splitting job, trying the depress the little white tab on the side of the plug while gently prising it out, this plug was very tight.
As you can see from the above photo, the holes in the plug are very small, so none of my test probes would fit. I found some suitable wire and removed enough stands so it would fit in the holes, then tinned them with solder. There is access at the side of each hole where the metal of the terminal is exposed. This would make it easy to test, but the pins on the instrument cluster slide inside the terminal, if corrosion was inside the terminal it would not be identified using the external metal surface.
As you will see from the photo above back probing this plug would be very difficult, and i would not risk damaging the plug trying to do so.
Testing the wiring
The above photo represents the pinout of my Varadero 2005.
Using the Honda Varadero 125 workshop manual i have started the process of testing the wiring and the results are as follows.
I have already tested the fuse and the battery. All these tests are done on the harness not the instrument cluster.
(1) Measure the voltage between the Black / Brown terminal and the Green / Black terminal, this will show no voltage with the ignition off and battery voltage with the ignition on. Should this fail, there must be a break in the circuit (open circuit) or a poor connection, short circuit in the harness.
On my bike i was correct showing battery voltage with ignition on.
(2) Measure the voltage between the Black / Blue terminal and the Green / Black terminal, this will show no voltage with the ignition off and battery voltage with the ignition on. Should this fail, there must be a break in the circuit (open circuit) or a poor connection, short circuit in the harness.
On my bike i could not do this test at the time, my bike doesn't have a black blue terminal, i need to find out what that circuit is.
(3) Check the continuity between Green / Black terminal and Ground (i used the ignition barrel for ground).
So that is as far as i could go atm, i need to find more info on the black and blue terminal, any suggestions would be good.
Here is a photo of the instrument cluster going live with the ignition off, so i am pretty certain the instrument cluster works